Navigon 40 Plus - TMC under iGO8?

**kwbs** · 20th September 2020, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by ThePatcher

What screenshots?
This is a REQUEST thread how to get TMC running under iGO8 on a Navigon 40 Plus

TMC DOES work under iGO8

using it for TEN PLUS YEARS - including TMC Pro. Under iGO8

What is not as legitimate and so wrong, to ask to watch and be impressed by a screenshot/s of TMC that works under iGO8 on two different WinCE-devices - Medion and MDA 3?

This REQUEST is an integral part of all the information that comes up in your THREAD.

**Boki** · 20th September 2020, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by ThePatcher

...So, how can the Navigon TMC-device be identified? Is there an app for WinCE that shows the devices and their ports?

I told you - there is no portsplitter for TMC port (not exists).

igo8 has a built-in mechanism for detecting all ports, but ...

**ThePatcher** · 20th September 2020, 11:11 AM

This device is 10 years old, clearly somebody knows at least from which manufacturer the TMC-chip is?

Many of the older Navigon (up to 2009) worked with this in the sys.txt:

[tmc]
saved_config_available="1"
saved_config_classname="NMEA_GPSTMC_AMARYLLO"
saved_config_portname="COM"
saved_config_port="4"
auto_tuning="1"
saved_last_tuning_mode="1"
saved_last_frequency="960"

@Boki_Srb: Have you heard of MixSerDrv?

From this link (in German):
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Google Translate:

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

**Boki** · 20th September 2020, 11:46 AM

Old Navigon devices use Amaryllo chip...can be used without PS.

Not such a simple story. I tried to simplify, but you are persistent

I am member on D-E since 2012

Yess, a driver is always used for the TMC port (dll file)
In addition to the TMC port splitter, a TMC driver is also required.
So, if your device is equipped with Royaltek, Locosys, Wistron or GNS chip, try...
... good luck

**ThePatcher** · 20th September 2020, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by Boki_Srb

Not such a simple story. I tried to simplify, but you are persistent

Yeah, sorry. I'm very stubborn when it comes to that.

Any idea why the newer devices cannot be used any longer in such way as the old ones? Has the chip been protected or is it an integrated solution with GPS/TMC in one?

Normally these companies only combine single ICs (per function) into their layouts as this is cheaper than individually developed and patented solutions (i.e. Navigon's very own IC would cost way too much). So developer and chip behind each function of the device should be identifiable. Maybe opening one Navigon up would be a good start. Especially if there is no WinCE-software available to identify what is inside it.

So I'm going to open up my 40 Plus and have a look inside...

Time for some basic surgery... (tried attachments, but imgbox is faster with thumbnails):

Spoiler: pics

Easy to open. Remove 4x Torx 4-screws. Then use your thumbnail or a smartphone plastic tool to open case.

Spoiler: pic

Very typical configuration for smartphone, navigation and/or handheld gaming device.

Spoiler: pic

Display unclipped. Common LCD & digitizer-combo, most likely even replaceable.

Spoiler: pic

The lower half is way more interesting anyway! Battery & loudspeaker are unclipped and then the pcb can be removed with no further screws.

Spoiler: pic

Upper side. Very interesting are "free places" for components. This pcb was most likely used in more devices and with additional capabilities. The metal shielding can only be removed on the smallest protected area. Oh, well.

Spoiler: pic

Lower side. MicroSD-slot and more additional components. Interesting chip at the right side. "db G199". It's mostly ceramic. Any idea what that is? And another shielded area that cannot be opened.

Spoiler: pics

Close-ups of lower side.

Spoiler: pics

Close-ups of upper side.

Let's open the small shielding!

Spoiler: pic

Hrmpf! One bigger IC still under some metal. Let's cut that at one side and bend it up. Smaller component reads "ABTbok T16aHU".

Spoiler: pic

Bend up reveals IC - "SiGe 4150L 031BR".

Spoiler: pic

And closed up again. No permanent damage done.

OK. More work? Hot air-workstation is available, so no problem. Any suggestion maybe where interesting components (TMC-specific) may hide?

**ThePatcher** · 20th September 2020, 02:43 PM

First find: SiGe SE4150L - GPS radio receiver with dual-antenna input GPS receiver IC (so no GPS+TMC integrated solution).

Big ceramic "IC" most likely a GPS-antenna (as it's exactly on the other side of the pcb).

PCB identifies as: Foxconn Rev. 1 G10N010 800661
More On Sticker:
FGH24X9
G10N010T01 LF
46003808-08L2

Big ICs Upper Side:
Sandisk SDIN5C2-4G - Flash Card 4G-byte 3V/3.3V Embedded MMC 169-Pin TFBGA
0319 C1HS 029 (SMD 16Pin, Non-Iso) - unknown
PIC16 F610 I/ML 061GPB (SMD 16Pin, Non-Iso) - 8-bit Microcontroller

Big ICs Lower Side:
CDU TI0BW Z49H (SMD 16Pin, Non-Iso) - unknown

OK, time for some hot air-surgery...

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Paydirt! This time we found gold!

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Not worth it! The lower side only hides some boring caps and resistors behind the metal shielding.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

But that's more like it! Let's see who the "big boys" are...

Winbond W9751G6JB-25 - DRAM Chip DDR2 SDRAM 512Mbit 32Mx16 1.8V 84-Pin WBGA

SiRFatlasV - all in one CPU/GPU-solution for navi devices, based around ARM11-core, also features GPS
Datasheet PDF: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Hm. Interesting! But where's the FM-receiver for TMC hiding?

**Boki** · 21st September 2020, 06:11 AM

So much work for nothing
But I see that you show a great desire to practice your (un)soldering skills

All you had to do was follow the wires from the tmc connector to the chip

But, from specifications:
...Car charger with integrated TMC Traffic antenna... >> it mean that the device receives a signal via USB cable (or is even the whole receiver in the cable?)
Anyway, it further means that the data lines from the usb cable are in charge of TMC signal transmission.
And that the chip they reach is either a receiver or a TMC signal decoder.

Edit:
judging by these [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], it is still just an antenna.

**ThePatcher** · 22nd September 2020, 06:58 AM

Originally Posted by Boki_Srb

So much work for nothing

Absolutely not! I think it's also important that we take the time and understand how the hardware is made up.

Originally Posted by Boki_Srb

But I see that you show a great desire to practice your (un)soldering skills

But I'm not a show off!

And it took a while before the shielding finally gave in... No idea if I ruined a chip or two. Haven't put together & tested the Navigon ever since.

Originally Posted by Boki_Srb

All you had to do was follow the wires from the tmc connector to the chip

But which chip remains the question! For as far as I can tell we have TWO GPS-capable chips in that device! The SiRF Atlas V has GPS integrated and the SiGe SE4150L is a dedicated chip.

Originally Posted by Boki_Srb

judging by these [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], it is still just an antenna.

Exactly. I came to that conclusion very early as the cable is way too thin to contain any IC/PCB. But where is the TMC decoded? The CPU/GPU may be the answer as (newer) CPUs often have FM-capability (FM radio) integrated.

Ah, see what the datasheet says:

"When combined with CSR Synergy™, this processor can be seamlessly integrated with CSR's Audio and Connectivity Platforms [...] CSR Synergy supports Bluetooth®, Bluetooth low energy, Wi-Fi, echo cancellation, noise suppression, FM receive and transmit and more[...]

So it's the SiRF-chip that does the TMC-decoding - via CSR Synergy. Oh, and that's a SOFTWARE solution!

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Doesn't look hopeless to me anymore. If we can get some... dedicated people on to it. As CSR Energy is STILL in use up to this day. May also be interesting for some newer devices. At least to understand how navigation-software uses it to manage the hardware.

Update:
And the 40 Plus is still alive! But I had to resolder a micro smd-capacitator (0,5mm size) which I had accidentally "swiped" when I removed the shielding. Sound was also not working at first as the loudspeaker only LOOKED plugged into its socket but wasn't.

Now, question remains is there a WinCE 6-based navi with SiRF Atlas V and working TMC under iGO8? Let's find out...

Many navis use this chip, even some really cheap ones from China. I'll try my luck with a Medion GoPal-device (maybe the 4470?) as they are very common and have a dedicated community.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

**Boki** · 22nd September 2020, 07:22 AM

The problem is not hardware.
The fact is that with devices that are designed in this way, the firmware and the complete OS are adapted to certain (proprietary) software. Active processes only address that software.
Therefore, it must be unlocked using mortscript and similar tools.
And in even more complex cases like these, even the signals have to be "translated" (with portsplitter).

**ThePatcher** · 22nd September 2020, 07:46 AM

I see. But those issues are now 10 years old.

Have others been able to find a solution? As I said there's a LOT of Atlas V-based WinCE-navis around. I cannot imagine there is (or was) not a LOAD of people with the same question.

Besides, Atlas V-TMC capability is software based (at least according to the factsheet). How is it controlled on the 40 Plus? By the Navigon-software, a driver or the firmware itself? Would the Navigon-software run on a "pure" WinCE device? It works on WinCE-Medion GoPALs btw!

In regards to PortSplitter... is it used to get the GPS-functionality of the SiRF Atlas V or the SiGe SE4150L (dedicated GPS-chip)? And what is the second GPS-chip doing anyway?

I'll have a look at some of the GoPAL-communities...

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