Thread: Garmin DEZL 770 does not show topo map

Tex: "How is posting Universal Firmware Patcher violates Garmin copyright?" Mate, you know i'm not a scaredy-cat usually right? But the answer to your question's pretty obvious surely? It breaches Garmin's EULA not to modify their device firmware and it's sole purpose is to allow use of illegally modified (unlocked) mapping on their protected devices.

@FireFox58
Sorry, i overreacted a bit there. But if you knew what i know you'd understand. Can't say more other than be warned that this behavior is being watched externally, that's what's being flagged by the thread disappearing. Don't forget the bitter lesson of last year please.

Originally Posted by osiris4isis

Ok, lets think about this for a moment. Garmin (or any entity) can't claim copyright over something that doesn't belong to them. They didn't write the patcher, and posting the patcher isn't posting ANY Garmin material. Posting any Garmin map (modified via patching) is not allow because the map posted is originally own by them (that is why this forum conformed to that request.)...

What I've marked in red in the above quote quite hits the nail on the head there mate. It's the ppl using the tool who breach the EULA. You own only the device as a chattel, what you (or even someone only in possession of the firmware/software without a device) don't own is the firmware/software/map data used to run a device and you merely have a license to use that stuff subject to the constrains you agreed to as contained in the End User LICENSING Agreement, which by implication you passively agree to when buying and operating a device or merely coming into possession of the firmware/software/map data. Immediately you save a change of one Byte of their data you break that legally enforceable agreement which is subject to local laws in Kansas USA regardless of where it's used in the world. I know you don't post SD BIN file kits or patched RGN files but others do. Someone is going to get adverse attention. That's the warning info i've been given by someone whom i trust. I am not wanting to scare, just forewarn well-meaning ppl trying to help others out of kindness who unfortunately might then be made an example of. The long arm of retribution has already reached from Olathe to Europe in a few cases over map copyright breaches that we know of, so no one is immune. There are probably others around the world who've been pursued too but we aren't aware of. I'll let the EULA do any more talking:

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No, i did get your point totally, not sure you're getting the finer nuances of what's been told to me and i'm in turn trying to pass on here though. Let's look at what's happened previously, Garmin tracked down and took action against (at least) 3 ppl from this forum for posting unlocked maps. If you read the EULA (Licensing agreement) you absolutely don't own any of the data be it firmware, software or mapping data. It's licensed to you on the condition that you don't interfere with it. They flogged those 3 ppl and goodness knows who else based on the extreme likelihood Garmin lost maps sales where potential buyers instead of buying maps took the offer of maps totally free from forums, such as this one did openly until last year. So, some points:

1. They are legally entitled to protect their 'soft' products against piracy by protecting 'hard' devices against using unauthorized maps through firmware changes.
2. They are further legally entitled to demand that any data they license isn't modified or reverse-engineered. (That's precisely why they license it not sell it).
3. Modifying firmware is treated no differently in the EULA to modifying mapping data.
4. They have already moved firmly against ppl who unlock and/or were supplying such modified maps. Modifying firmware might seem different, however it's no different at all in terms of the EULA. i.e It's the same prohibition against modifying mapping data as modifying firmware.
5. Therefore it's reasonable that because ultimately the purpose of patching firmware is also be able to illegally use unlocked maps and thereby cost Garmin map sales revenue that they will indeed look at the ppl who use the patcher. Not the author of the Patcher, not the ppl who download and use the Patcher. Likely the ppl they'll track down are the facilitators who make kits and RGNs for others to use.
6. History shows they didn't pursue Wu Yongzheng, the author of gimgunlock, they pursued the prominent ppl who used his tool to unlock the maps and/or post unlocked maps for others to use. They didn't seem to pursue the end user ppl either, those downloaders who just took advantage even though they got the ultimate advantage and didn't pay the facilitators who got nothing in return.

Sorry guys, you can believe this or not. History does tend to repeat in my experience. Ignore or poo-hoo the risk, it's your call. I believe the warning i got is credible because of it's previously reliable and Garmin-knowledgeable source.

He didn't publicize it but posted it and other tools quite openly about 9 years ago but nobody in the western garmin circle noticed it or if they did they kept it quiet. I recall it was syzygy who posted it here (around 2012?) but we found out later that it was known in Chinese forums well before that.

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The end game is this:
So is all Garmin patcher to be removed from this forum? How about all of the replies to help people with issues with their devices?

Any decisions like that about firmware patchers or modded firmware for cross-flashing will be made here by others of course, same as with the patcher thread. I see the dog tracking threads have also gone, probably because of different reasons entirely to the patcher thread though. I'm thinking that's the limit because the patcher and dog tracking threads all went pretty-much together. Time will tell I guess.

Helping ppl with bricked devices is another thing entirely and regardless that it involves making cure firmware which technically also breaches Garmin's EULA I doubt they would give two hoots about it. So, I'll happily continue to openly help users recover bricked devices. Garmin routinely refuses to help ppl recover bricked devices, telling older device owners "it's irrecoverable so just toss it" or similar. They offer an exchange program for newer out-of-warrenty devices but it's almost as expensive as buying a new device retail and really it's probably an enormous pain in the ass for them to maintain a stock of restored devices for exchange. Helping the owners of bricked devices here certainly doesn't cost Garmin financially the way offering patched protected firmware does.

True, github isn't a forum but i only linked that because it's got the date history. V0.01 was known in sosaw Chinese forum long before we got it as we found out after the event. So it was available in the Oriental garmin hacking world prob from 2009, just not the Western forums nor even the RU or other Eastern bloc ones. It was first made available right here at GPS Power in the West then spread like wildfire. Ultimately, the rapid distribution of gimunlock from here and the ease in which it unlocked maps was likely the main reason Garmin's fury was brought down upon the heads of the main map posters in this forum, in my firm belief anyway. There were maybe other factors too, patching of charts for modern protected marine devices would have added some fire in Garmin's belly I believe.

As for the half 'n' half thing being hypocritical, that's a valid view. However, they're a 'for profit' business. So it's all about the money isn't it? Not meant cynically in my case, they're like any other commercial enterprise and will furiously protect their income stream, pouncing on things that might disrupt or reduce that. It seems they were quite slow in fact with taking action on unlocked maps. As for things like cure firmware which 'technically' breaches their EULA but doesn't cost them financially ... Pah! So what? They're highly unlikely to waste time and money stopping what is essentially just a free public service when it doesn't alter their bottom line. Here it is in your native lingo Tex

Spoiler: :-)

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I guess we'll find out eventually whether garmin goes full-on about altered firmware like they did about altered maps. If it does happen, I doubt anyone in this forum wants it to be here again .....