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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by kunix View Post
    Protected maps => motivated map makers => better maps => more devices sold. Doesn't it make sense?

    catymag
    I really don't understand what Garmin is trying to achieve by not replacing the broken map protection for more than 10 years and doing all other seemingly stupid things.
    I've just written what they *should* do, on my opinion.
    Also I don't get how preventing others from building maps can help sell more devices. Maybe new maps are only sold with newer devices? Then they need a better map protection anyway.
    Protected maps => motivated map makers => better maps => LESS devices sold,
    because not everybody has the money to buy aaaall the maps he wants to have or to try out.
    It's like saying I've downloaded 100 illegal movies to watch (maybe), but if downloading is blocked for good, I would pay money to watch all 100 movies in cinemas.
    (probably just one or two...)

    So, why buy an expensive Garmin gps, if you have to pay 3 times more to buy maps you want.
    I would buy a chinese unit and install a couple of navigators to play with, spending less than 100 euros.
    Anyway, Garmin is selling most of their units as LMTs so we PRE-PAY for maps and we PRE-PAY for Traffic!
    And in countries that companies (associated with Garmin) produce local maps for Garmin, units sold in those countries come preloaded (PRE-PAID) with those maps!

    Sometimes a new good map (locked or easily unlocked) is the way to sell a new unit.
    Now that we have the new Germany TOPO, if I wanted to use that map to full extend, I would have to buy a 62st (for example) at the price of 450 € !!!!!!!!
    But if I was going to be stuck with JUST ONLY this map (lack of money to "buy" more maps for that already too expensive unit), probably I would NOT have bought the 62st in the first place (I already have a 60 and a 60csx).
    And if I do so, who is losing money now???

    A Forum like this one is useful to Garmin, because we are both beta testers (testing firmwares and maps and new features) and ADVERTISERS of new devices, features and maps.
    Do you think my friends, that everybody that buys a Garmin device knows (or even bothers) to download and unlock maps, flash firmwares or unlock hidden features?
    For everyone of us here, there are hundreds of others that just want to navigate from point A to point B.
    They 've bought an EXPENSIVE Garmin device, they PRE-PAID CNxxNT (plus a country map from the country Garmin Dealer sometimes) just because they have heard from a friend: "Great device, you can load any map you like, for any place of the world, buy it, buy it, it has great potential!!!" but they never downloaded another map....
    Don't you think that is easy for a company of this size to shut us down (or at least try) as Google did the XDA Developers thread of Maps?
    Do you think that they took back the 6.40 firmwares just because some users protested in Garmin's Blog or because of the feedback in every Forum like this one?
    (The same have happened with popular TV series like Lost, House MD, Prison Break, Game of Thrones etc. For every thousand of illegal downloads, the rummors and hipe that "we the illegals" spread worldwide, "forced" hundreds of local TV networks around the globe to "buy" those series and the profit, both for them and the producers, skyrocketed).

    I think that Garmin is clever enough to "lose little from the few" and "profit too much from the many"! 27978
    Last edited by x-trail; 15th June 2012 at 20:48.

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  3. #22
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    I think you are right to some extent, but also I think the way you are used to think is biased by living with that perverted market model for a long time.
    Here are a few statements:
    1) Garmin could easily allow making trial map licences, so anyone could try any map for any period of time. They could also allow selling time-limited licences for lower prices. It's because GPS devices have a reliable source of time, GPS signal.
    2) When there are many map producers, both small and large, there are more free competition, so the prices are lower.
    3) Don't you think that the map prices are so high partly because map producers are already taking into account losses due to piracy. It's true at least for the former CIS countries.
    4) I don't know how things are going in other countries, but in the former CIS piracy really rules. I've never met anyone who buys maps legally.

    One wise man told me that Garmin is quite conservative and don't want to make dangerous steps in order to drink even more champaign later. That's why I'm pretty sure the situation is not going to change soon.
    Last edited by kunix; 15th June 2012 at 21:25.

  4. #23
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    See this .img on Android :
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    It's just a beginning, but times are changing: now, if you want to build a map without Garmin, you can put it on mobile phones, and use free software to display it.
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    You have to navigate to get to the good.
    Nuvi1250/Nuvi 34xx/Nuvi 2200/Nuvi 66/Oregon 600/Galaxy S5 MM 6.0.1/TomTom GO/iGO Nextgen Avic,Basar,Isr.Gift/Navigon
    Please don't flood my pm box with questions you can post on forum!! You won't hear back from me.

  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by kunix View Post
    4) I don't know how things are going in other countries, but in the former CIS piracy really rules. I've never met anyone who buys maps legally.


    There is not the presumption of innocence in the former CIS! Decent honest users always pay for piracy in our case. The former CIS dealers of Garmin keeps the prices and trading margin a approximately two times higher than in civilized counties. No one will work without a profit (the very big profit) in the former CIS!!! Do not make laugh us...
    Love your wife? Buy yourself a GPS for answering to her favorite question: "Dear, where are you?".

  6. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by kunix View Post
    4) I don't know how things are going in other countries, but in the former CIS piracy really rules. I've never met anyone who buys maps legally.
    same here in Romania, and partially because of the prices.
    Not only for maps, but for devices also.
    Every device sold by Garmin Romania is +50% the price of the same device in the rest of the Europe.
    That's why I bought mine from Amazon and not from this local thief.

  7. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by kunix View Post
    4) I don't know how things are going in other countries, but in the former CIS piracy really rules. I've never met anyone who buys maps legally.
    Yes, in CIS countries the piracy is strong enough. In simple words - piracy is a part of mentality. But believe me - things are changing in right direction. Slowly, but changing.
    Also I don't think it is only in CIS countries or piracy was invented here.
    Do you need an examples like the Piratebay.se or ....
    I have purchased LifeTime update CNE+OFRM separately from the device and I'll be really very glad to meet you. The cost was fair - 90euro for both maps.
    One of the things, which I don't like in Garmin policy, is that the precondition Unit dead -> LifeTime update is dead. So if by accident I loose my device - I'm loosing more than a device. So that even I'm fair to Garmin, I feel cheated.
    The other strange thing - if I have two devices, I should have the right to have the paid already map on both devices. All we know that this is not the case.
    I'm not a Saint - and I'm not saying that I ever will be, but in WE, CAN, USA the people mentality is different due to bigger incomes, education, culture and so on. But still - piracy is allover the world. The rich people are just a bit more lazy. :beach5:
    And last, but not least - I'm big fan of your work and knowledge. Thanks indeed.
    Last edited by isg; 16th June 2012 at 09:42. Reason: adds

  8. #27
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    So in conclusion, leaving the garmin market philosophy, nobody knows yet how to descrypt this file, right?

  9. #28
    Navigation software Moderator

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    I think it's very unlikely that someone who's able to break the encryption publishes the broken map, he would probably sell it. Professionalism and altruism are kinda mutually exclusive.
    By the way, try XOR-ing every byte of the map with some non-zero byte, and tell us if the map still decrypts.

  10. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by kunix View Post
    I think it's very unlikely that someone who's able to break the encryption publishes the broken map, he would probably sell it. Professionalism and altruism are kinda mutually exclusive.
    That's why some people demanding from Garmin stronger encryption for maps. Somebody will earn some bucks by selling decrypted maps.
    Last edited by voyager56; 29th June 2012 at 08:40. Reason: Some language corrections inspired by Kunix

  11. #30
    Navigation software Moderator

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    Advertising a better map protection to break it later? I'm not THAT sophisticated! And Garmin could make the protection unbreakable by digitally signing their firmwares, like Apple does. Though Apple's devices are frequently jailbroken, Garmin could make it better.
    By the way, "so why ..." translates like "Итак, почему ... ?". You'd better say "that's why ..." in this case.

 

 
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